Ok, im learning some things here. I like what your saying about the Tein S-Techs, and I think Im gonna look at getting these, as far as lowering the car thats cool, it will look nice. What else would I upgrade after adding the S-Techs? And what are bump stops and inner fender liners? Will i have issues with these things?
If gettign the s.Techs then you just need the springs and new struts and shocks if you want them, but not necessity right off. When you take the front strut out you will see a yellowish piece of like hard foam. This is the bump stop. It basically help stop the car from bottomening out and causing you tires to hit the inner fender liners and such. Some cars like s10s have them in front on the lower control are and in the rear over the axle to prevent the control arms and axle from hitting the frame on big bumps. The s.Tech should include instructions on how much to cut out of it. By cutting it you are allowing the the car to sit lower without sitting on the bump stop. if the car is sitting on the bumpstop it will limit the amount of suspension travel and cause it to have a rough ride.
The inner fender liner is the plastic piece in teh front wheel well that prevents rain and debris from entering the engine bay. I would not worry about removing these or cutting these unless it becomes necessary. You may end up with a slight rub on big bumps or hard turns at speed and maybe at slow speed at a full turn. This rubbing maybe so sparatic and so minimal you may not need to do anything. Or you may have no rubbing at all. Or in some cases it may rub all the time. then just cut out area rubbing or remove entirely. All cars even the same models are different and all springs even same models can have slight differences so you never know until you do it.
If gettign the s.Techs then you just need the springs and new struts and shocks if you want them, but not necessity right off. When you take the front strut out you will see a yellowish piece of like hard foam. This is the bump stop. It basically help stop the car from bottomening out and causing you tires to hit the inner fender liners and such. Some cars like s10s have them in front on the lower control are and in the rear over the axle to prevent the control arms and axle from hitting the frame on big bumps. The s.Tech should include instructions on how much to cut out of it. By cutting it you are allowing the the car to sit lower without sitting on the bump stop. if the car is sitting on the bumpstop it will limit the amount of suspension travel and cause it to have a rough ride.
The inner fender liner is the plastic piece in teh front wheel well that prevents rain and debris from entering the engine bay. I would not worry about removing these or cutting these unless it becomes necessary. You may end up with a slight rub on big bumps or hard turns at speed and maybe at slow speed at a full turn. This rubbing maybe so sparatic and so minimal you may not need to do anything. Or you may have no rubbing at all. Or in some cases it may rub all the time. then just cut out area rubbing or remove entirely. All cars even the same models are different and all springs even same models can have slight differences so you never know until you do it.
Ok....ok, starting to get this. So the Tein Springs, and then I could also look into struts and shocks. But the teins have a 2.2 drop on front and rear. And the spring rate...3/168 on the front and 3.5/196 on the rear, what does this mean?
well, 2.2 drop is 2.2 inches. the teins will drop your car just a little bit more than 2 inches from stock. and if you go with them, they come with all the instructions to install them. like resolve said, the bump stops are a yellow piece of foam. Tein suggests cutting about an inch or so off of it, but i just cut mine right in half. i dont have any issues with hitting them now. the only time i "bottom out" is if i come off a significant dip in the road.
and as far as rubbing on the inner fender liners, that can vary from vehicle to vehicle. i know people who have had these springs on their xd with absolutely no issue with rubbing. i personally have a 2011, not sure if they made any modifications with the suspension, but on my 18s i rubbed at the slightest bump. it got to be really annoying at first, but after a week or so i could finally get down there and see a small whole where i was actually hitting the liner. at that point i took out my dremel and made the hole bigger. that mostly fixed it but, eventually i kept rubbing on bumps, when i was turning and then finally, a big enough piece of plastic got caught by my tire and i literally ripped the entire passenger liner out. lol. i still have a lil of the driver side, but its all cut up so i dont rub it.
to install the springs, it can be done with 2 people, a couple of jacks and simple tools and a couple hours. the back can be done in like 15 minutes. the front took us a lil longer because we didnt realize at first you have to remove the wiper cowl to get to the bolts on the top of the front struts. i could now have springs changed on our cars in an hour tops! im actually thinking about going to 17 inch wheels to see if that will give me a lil more clearance.
and also, the new shocks after the springs is not a necessity, but a recommendation. im still running stock shocks and struts. your ride could improve a lil because you would then have shocks using their full capabilities rather than having them constricted because they are too long. but i personally will ride my stock ones til they need replacing. at that point i will prolly switch to shorter ones
Ok....ok, starting to get this. So the Tein Springs, and then I could also look into struts and shocks. But the teins have a 2.2 drop on front and rear. And the spring rate...3/168 on the front and 3.5/196 on the rear, what does this mean?
1sweetxd answered part of this.
But as far as the spring rate the number before / is metric and after / is standard (american for lack of terms)
what you will be worried about it the standard side in this case the 168 and 196.
What this means is this is how many pounds of force it takes to compress the spring one inch. So the front springs take 168 lbs. to compress 1 inch and the rears take 196 lbs. to compress one inch.
As for you just going to buy springs off the shelf you won't have to worry to much about spring rates. most companies will be relatively the same. that becomes key when trying to do some fine tuning for specific applications and gettign custom springs.
Cool, ok. I got this now. I appreciate all the help here. So once I get the springs, I doubt I will want to pay to have them installed, so even though I have never done this, I will attempt to install them with a friend of mine. Cause I do have a couple jacks, and simple tools. I thought more would be involved. And for the fender liners, I will cross that bridge when I get to it, are the stock wheels 18 inch on the xd, cause my wheels are stock.
stock is 16in wheels. air tools make things easier of course (not required but yea) and rent a spring compressor from autozone for the fronts. teins will do you real well until you wanna go lower, which then youll have to go bags or coils.
Jack the rear up until the tires are off the ground a decent bit. Use jack stands if you have them. With the rear of the car off the ground unbolt the rear shocks from the rear crossmember then have a person push down on the tire while another person pulls the sping out. If the wheel is high enough off the ground, just a few inches, the one person can push the wheels down far enough to pull the spring out. It will take a little force to pull the spring out over the little nipples that hold the spring in but not a whole lot.
Once the old spring are out. Then do the reverse to put new springs in. have some one push down and slide the new spring in and then re-attach the shcoks and drop it down.
It took me alomost as long to explain it as it takes to do it. lol. You can takle the tires off if you want. But this way means no removing tires then putting them back on. = saves time.
The front:
first off either have or go buy a dog bone wrench. like
This will have multiple socket style opening with different sizes but the are open all the way through.
Open the hood and remove the cowling under the window. the top plastic I believe is all plastic clips once the top plastic is removed there are like 15 blots to remove plus the windshield wipers and wiper motor. Once you get the whole cowling off take the dog bone wrench and put the correct size over the nut then take an allen key that fits the top strut mount and sit it through the bone wrench socket and into the top allen key hole on the strut. This will take two people to do. One person will hold the dog bone and the other will hold the allen key to keep the strut shaft from turning. the eastiest thing to do is to put a box end wrench over the allen key for leverage and hold it while the second persond turns the dog bone wrench. Do all of this while the front tires are still on the ground. Once it is loose on both sides, but not taken all the way off. jack up the front of the car and put on jack stands. and remove all nuts and bolts to remove the strut. yes wheels have to come off the front. Once the bolts at the bottom end of the strut are removed. You can go back to the top mount and remove the bolt completely, this takes two people. One person to hold the strut at the bottom and one to remove top bolt.
Now with strut off. if you have spring compressors then put them on and remove nut holding top plate and spring in. If you do not have spring compressors do the next at your own risk. just unbolt the nut until it is near the top of the threads and then hold your hand over the nut while you are turning the bolt. it will pop up when it breaks free but not with alot of insane force. Your hand being over the bolt and wrench will keep everytihng from shooting out and becoming flying projectiles. then pull spring off put new one on. adjust bumpstops and reput the top mount and all on.. you can tighten the bolt that hold the top mount on completely tight. then slid the strut back in. again two people one to put strut in the second to guide the top of the strut through the hole and to start threading the bolt. once the bolt is started a good amount to hold the strut. reattach all bolts and stuff under the car put the tires on and lower the car. once the car is on the ground tighten the top bolt the same way you loosened it. once completely tight. then reinstall the cowling. and dont forget to put the plug for your wiper in the cowling area plug up the wipers before you comepletly close it off. once everything is back together you are good to go.
Once you are looking at the car all of this will make alot more sense.
stock is 16in wheels. air tools make things easier of course (not required but yea) and rent a spring compressor from autozone for the fronts. teins will do you real well until you wanna go lower, which then youll have to go bags or coils.
oh yea, forgot to add that part. my buddy who helped me had a spring compressor. make sure you get one of those. it will make life a lot easier!!
Ok, well since my wheels are stock at 16in then i shouldnt have to worry about the fender liners? Right? And wow that sounds like alot of work, i have never done anything like that. As much as i would like to do all the work on my car i may need to go get the springs installed. lol
It looks like alot of work but it's really not. even with you not knowing how to with some help I say a 2 hour job tops.
and one thing I don't get is why does everyone thing wheel size affect rubbing and all. This is not directed towards anyone I just want to know? Wheel size is not the factor at all. The main factor is the overall diameter of the wheel tire combo as well as width.
If you have 16 inch wheels and go to an 18 inch does not mean you are going to rub. If the 16s did not rub and your overall wheel and tire combo are say 24 inch diameter and 7 inch wide, and you get an 18 inch wheel and the compensated tire size so that your wheel and tire size are the same 24 inch diameter and 7 inches wide then you will not rub. Wheel size alone mean nothing.
Alot of people rubbing because of their wheels is more to do with the width being wider than the overall size of the wheel tire combo. I have the stock tC wheels and my overall diameter is actually less than the stock 16 wheel tire combo. but I rub more on corners at lower heights because the width of the wheel is wider by like 1 to 1.5 inches.
The main thing to remember is to keep the overall diameter of the wheel and tire combo the same. This way your speedometer will stay correct. If your original overall diameter is 24 inches, then regardless of a 16 to 22 inch wheel you should get a tire that keeps the diameter at 24 inches.
I AM JUST SAYING REDUCING YOUR WHEEL SIZE ALONE WILL NOT REMOVE RUBBING IF YOU KEEP THE SAME OVERALL DIAMETER. JUST WANTED TO STATE THAT YOU COULD KEEP THE SAME WHEEL JUST REDUCE YOUR TIRE SIZE. BUT THIS WILL AFFECT YOUR SPEEDO. WITH MY XD MY SPEEDO IS ABOUT 3 MPH FAST NOW BECAUSE OF MY OVERALL DIAMETER BEING SMALLER. This is based an multiple radars in consturctions zones posting your speed. If my speedo says 65 they state I am at about 62.
"If you have 16 inch wheels and go to an 18 inch does not mean you are going to rub. If the 16s did not rub and your overall wheel and tire combo are say 24 inch diameter and 7 inch wide, and you get an 18 inch wheel and the compensated tire size so that your wheel and tire size are the same 24 inch diameter and 7 inches wide then you will not rub. Wheel size alone mean nothing. "
@Resolve...yes you are correct!! i may have mispoken earlier, but yes the overall wheel size does not matter. the combo of wheel and tire is the difference maker. i had stated i wanted to go with smaller wheels to eliminate rubbing because i would put smaller tires on them. ive even just thought about putting smaller tires on my stock steelies to help out. so your rant is justified. lol
Originally Posted by KylexD
Ok, well since my wheels are stock at 16in then i shouldnt have to worry about the fender liners? Right? And wow that sounds like alot of work, i have never done anything like that. As much as i would like to do all the work on my car i may need to go get the springs installed. lol
you shouldnt have to worry about the fender liners that much. i still put my stocks on every now and then to clean my 18s or what not. still may rub just a hair, but nowhere near with my other wheels. so, you should be good there.
as far as doing the work kyle, dont let it intimidate you. prior to this car, i had only worked on trucks. i can tell you that lowering this vehicle is night and day compared to others ive worked on. and i dont claim to be a mechanic by any means, but i have a basic idea of what to do. with that being said, it really isnt that much work. took me 2 hours tops because we were kinda learning as we went. with resolves write up earlier, which was awesome by the way, plus another set of hands, it shouldnt be tough. i even went as far as printing a step by step how to with pictures on how to change springs on a Yaris (our cars use the same suspension and chassis) dont be scared bro, it really is simple. and you really cant mess anything up, all your doing is undoing bolts and then putting it back together. i would find a friend who has a lil bit of knowledge to help before i paid someone to install them for me. and like thisorthatxd said, you feel really good when its done and you did it yourself!
@sweet - that was in no way attacking anyone here. I just see it on millions of auto sites. where people are like I rub bad with 18s so I thinking of going with 16s or so on. Which is not correct way to look at it. Especially when I see people asking on these same sites about wanting to lower a vehicle and asking about rubbing and wheels. and lots of people say get a smaller wheel and so on. If you went to a shop and they gave you 16s instead of your 18s and gave you wheels based on your vehicle and you find out you still rub I bet you would be mad at spending that money when you could have spent less and just reduced your tire size.
I just more so don't want anyone seeing some 18s or something they like but not get them becuase they are worried about rubbing due to rim size you know. when in actuality they may have no problem.
But just to you and anyone else wanting to change tire size remember any thing that is more than about 3% will have a noticeable affect on your speedo reading. also the great the change the more your distance from the ground will change. Basically just half to total change and that is the amount of ground cleareance change. So say you reduce you over diameter by 1 inch. Your car will now be 1/2 inch lower just do to the tire change.
I have a 94 s10 that I have dropped 5/6 static drop on suspension. But I reduced the tire size on the stock wheels. both due to rubbing in front and to get lower. The amount of change in tires also reduced my ride height but about another 3/4 to 1 lower. so total drop is about 6/7 between suspension and tires.
Ok, so I will install them myself!! I know it will be much more worth it when its done. And that's some good stuff on tire/wheel size, I never knew that so I will have to keep that in mind. I'm hoping to get those springs sometime in Jan. and I'm also working on getting some pictures up here soon.
Ok, so I will install them myself!! I know it will be much more worth it when its done. And that's some good stuff on tire/wheel size, I never knew that so I will have to keep that in mind. I'm hoping to get those springs sometime in Jan. and I'm also working on getting some pictures up here soon.
thats the spirit!! you got it man. its no big deal and it will look awesome when its done!!
@ resolve : just to clarify i just knew he would be fine on the stock 16's. your rant is completely correct and is something thats banging around my head a lot these days. my coilovers come in today (wewt!) and im looking into a new wheel setup for spring. i know im going 17 or 18 but just all the different widths and then looking for a nice stretch on tires is just zooming through my head. cant wait till its all on.
@ kylexd : cant wait to see the final product. i think youre one of the closest soon-to-be modified xD's to me. about time i get some competition lol.
Yes, thank you all for the help and support, this is still a new realm to me and im enjoying the chance to grow and learn here. Hopefully I can get started sooner than later on my mods.
@ThisorThat: How far are you from the hampton roads area. I also dont know anyone else with a xd, much less a modded one, lol
kyle...just for a quick reference this is how mine sits with the Teins on the stock wheels and tire set up. it sits literally right on top of the tires. so you can kinda see how the chance of rubbing is there. but, i think it sits perfect!
i apologize for the dirty car and crappy picture.
and i took this picture right after i put them on. 2 or 3 months ago. its settled down just a hair bit more since then
that sounds like alot of work, i have never done anything like that. As much as i would like to do all the work on my car i may need to go get the springs installed. lol
you got it man. its no big deal and it will look awesome when its done!!
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